Well, there's no way we don't watch that scene from The West Wing. I'll let the inimitable CJCS Admiral Percy Fitzwallace briefly explain the concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=841qG6VM0UI&t=79s
Listen Mister, we have a strict 'no politics' rule here.
Feel free to talk about Bay Area zoning issues and drug policies, or Brexit and the EU, or copyright law and AI, or Boeing and the FAA, or Edward Snowden and the NSA, BUT NO POLITICS!
I can find no relevant recent updates not covered by this late 2021 article.
It includes the 2021 update which expanded the PCA’s coverage to include the Navy, Marine Corps, and Space Force, in addition to the Army and Air Force, and the Modernization of Military Guidance in 2019 when The Department of Defense updated its internal guidance on the PCA, reflecting evolving interpretations and regulatory practices.
Not yet enacted into law: Strengthening the Posse Comitatus Act of 2020 (H.R. 7297) was introduced in the House in June 2020 to further expand the PCA’s applicability to all branches of the Armed Forces and prohibit the use of evidence obtained in violation of the Act.
Surely that's not what the JAG is referring to since the article covered it
"While the Posse Comitatus Act refers only to the Army and Air Force, a different statute extends the same rule to the Navy and Marine Corps. The Coast Guard, though part of the federal armed forces, has express statutory authority to perform law enforcement and is not bound by the Posse Comitatus Act."
> Section 1076 is titled "Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies".
> The President may employ the armed forces ... to ... restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition ... the President determines that ... domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order ... or [to] suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such ... a condition ... so hinders the execution of the laws ... that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law ... or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws. [1]
So if I understand correctly, given the modifications to Posse Comitatus, and to the Insurrection Act, there is a legal theory under which the President can "send in the troops." Isn't that the real issue here, whether those statutes and conditions apply?
The linked article doesn't seem to mention the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act. [2]
> Are all members of the military covered by the Posse Comitatus Act? No, only... Army and Air Force, a different statute extends the same rule to the Navy and Marine Corps. The Coast Guard... has express statutory authority to perform law enforcement
> However, when Guard personnel are called into federal service, or “federalized,” they become part of the federal armed forces, which means they are bound by the Posse Comitatus Act until they are returned to state control.
I don't understand. Was the coast guard deployed? When national guard is nationalized (as is the case here when the state is bypassed), they become part of the army or air force.
If Newsom had deployed them instead of Trump, then your statement would be accurate.
Marines are "activated" as in prepared for deployment but so far the story is Trump deploying CA Guard without gubernatorial approval, against which Newsom filed a lawsuit just today.
Where are you seeing the marines where deployed? I am reading they were put on alert status, which is not the same.
I would imagine this is being done as a signal to the state of California not to incite insurrection or the Insurrection Act could be invoked.
I’m not making a judgment about the morality or correctness of the current federalization of the national guard, but we need to make sure we are not spreading misinformation at such a time and sticking to facts.
Edit:
I did just find this, so it seems they are being integrated somehow. So then yes, not clear how this would be legal:
California isn’t “inciting” anything - this is a few people in a couple of parts of the city and so far it seems like a protest with some violence on the order of a bad Raiders game, nothing remotely like the 1992 riots much less an actual insurrection.
Well, there's no way we don't watch that scene from The West Wing. I'll let the inimitable CJCS Admiral Percy Fitzwallace briefly explain the concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=841qG6VM0UI&t=79s
Perhaps also worth noting Adama's observation from Battlestar Galactica on police and military:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwrSlzZC31w
I can definitely see SCOTUS ruling that the act is a violation of separation of powers.
For persons unaware of the broader context - today, Trump has ordered the deployment of the military against American civilians.
Which in addition to being morally indefensible is also illegal under this law. Half the country is applauding it.
He is also calling for the arrest of Governor Newsom.
(It should be noted that none of this is, of course, remotely as concerning as the tax deductable status of SWE salaries.)
Listen Mister, we have a strict 'no politics' rule here.
Feel free to talk about Bay Area zoning issues and drug policies, or Brexit and the EU, or copyright law and AI, or Boeing and the FAA, or Edward Snowden and the NSA, BUT NO POLITICS!
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics ... unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
This is NOT a "strict 'no politics' rule" .
> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting.
It’s too bad the “good hackers” have moved on and been replaced by selfish, money obsessed business fanatics.
The topics I listed are certainly not very fresh and have been discussed here ad nauseum for years and even a decade plus at this point.
Meanwhile topics that keep getting flagged in the last few months are new things like cuts to science budgets and institutions.
You are going to get downvoted, probably for the sarcasm, not the content.
I'm doing my part!
I was a CAARNG JAG. You might want a newer article. Recent amendments to posse comitatus are relevant.
I can find no relevant recent updates not covered by this late 2021 article.
It includes the 2021 update which expanded the PCA’s coverage to include the Navy, Marine Corps, and Space Force, in addition to the Army and Air Force, and the Modernization of Military Guidance in 2019 when The Department of Defense updated its internal guidance on the PCA, reflecting evolving interpretations and regulatory practices.
Not yet enacted into law: Strengthening the Posse Comitatus Act of 2020 (H.R. 7297) was introduced in the House in June 2020 to further expand the PCA’s applicability to all branches of the Armed Forces and prohibit the use of evidence obtained in violation of the Act.
Could you elaborate?
In 2021, it was amended to include Navy, Marines, and Space Force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act#:~:text=Th...
Surely that's not what the JAG is referring to since the article covered it
"While the Posse Comitatus Act refers only to the Army and Air Force, a different statute extends the same rule to the Navy and Marine Corps. The Coast Guard, though part of the federal armed forces, has express statutory authority to perform law enforcement and is not bound by the Posse Comitatus Act."
Technically, the "different statute" the article links to is not the same thing as the amendment to the PCA, which is here: <https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1385>.
> Section 1076 is titled "Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies".
> The President may employ the armed forces ... to ... restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition ... the President determines that ... domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order ... or [to] suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such ... a condition ... so hinders the execution of the laws ... that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law ... or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws. [1]
So if I understand correctly, given the modifications to Posse Comitatus, and to the Insurrection Act, there is a legal theory under which the President can "send in the troops." Isn't that the real issue here, whether those statutes and conditions apply?
The linked article doesn't seem to mention the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act. [2]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act#2006%E2%80...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization...
> Are all members of the military covered by the Posse Comitatus Act? No, only... Army and Air Force, a different statute extends the same rule to the Navy and Marine Corps. The Coast Guard... has express statutory authority to perform law enforcement
So this act is not relevant to today's news
Meanwhile, the very next paragraph:
> However, when Guard personnel are called into federal service, or “federalized,” they become part of the federal armed forces, which means they are bound by the Posse Comitatus Act until they are returned to state control.
I don't understand. Was the coast guard deployed? When national guard is nationalized (as is the case here when the state is bypassed), they become part of the army or air force.
If Newsom had deployed them instead of Trump, then your statement would be accurate.
The national guard was deployed yesterday. Today, the Marines.
Marines are "activated" as in prepared for deployment but so far the story is Trump deploying CA Guard without gubernatorial approval, against which Newsom filed a lawsuit just today.
Still relevant to today's news
Where are you seeing the marines where deployed? I am reading they were put on alert status, which is not the same.
I would imagine this is being done as a signal to the state of California not to incite insurrection or the Insurrection Act could be invoked.
I’m not making a judgment about the morality or correctness of the current federalization of the national guard, but we need to make sure we are not spreading misinformation at such a time and sticking to facts.
Edit:
I did just find this, so it seems they are being integrated somehow. So then yes, not clear how this would be legal:
https://www.northcom.mil/Newsroom/Press-Releases/Article/421...
Administration officials are saying deployment is in progress: https://www.latimes.com/california/live/los-angeles-protests...
California isn’t “inciting” anything - this is a few people in a couple of parts of the city and so far it seems like a protest with some violence on the order of a bad Raiders game, nothing remotely like the 1992 riots much less an actual insurrection.
Pretty mild compared to the rioters that invaded the Capitol in 2021, calling for Pence's head. Of course, the current president pardoned all of them.